megaparsecs replied to your post “megaparsecs replied to your post “throwback thursday: do any of you…”
idk i could almost get into someone casting ophelia as ~the villainous woman~~~ bc then someone else would at least be on the Ophelia Agency Train w/ me. choo choooooooooo (tho i mean. its still bs.)
that is a good point- i’m always here for productions where ophelia purposefully chooses her own actions instead of just being passive throughout the play. (eg. i prefer the interpretation where she willfully drowns herself as opposed to just accidentally falling into the water and letting it pull her under or whatever). but i still don’t think outright villainous/femme fatale ophelia has any textual basis whatsoever.
softgrungebenvolio replied to your post “megaparsecs replied to your post “oh man, i’m not sure how i feel…”
Not to mention it complete destroys the Horatio-as-Audience dynamic like?? Wh att he heckkk. Do directors actually do this? Is this actually a thing that happens???
it’s certainly not common, but it has been done before- twice that i know of, actually. the one that prompted this whole discussion is one from 2008 that people on here recently discovered and have been talking about lately.
the other one that opted to kill horatio for whatever reason was actually a pretty big-name one, directed by derek jacobi and starring kenneth branagh. i can’t really find anything about it other than that, but. derek jacobi why
yeah, i definitely agree with you. i personally would be hugely disappointed if i went to see a production of hamlet and it ended like that.
megaparsecs replied to your post “throwback thursday: do any of you guys remember the whole ‘hamlet is…”
who could forget
nativehueofresolution replied to your post “throwback thursday: do any of you guys remember the whole ‘hamlet is…”
i get secondhand embarrassment just thinking about it tbh
s a m e
shakespeareishq replied to your post “throwback thursday: do any of you guys remember the whole ‘hamlet is…”
ha there’s this one guy in my othello class that keeps trying to argue that *Emilia* is the real villain and is in on Iago’s plans from the start.
???? what? how?? i mean, i guess you could /sort/ of make a case for it based on only the scene where she gives iago the handkerchief, but? the entire rest of the play, where she clearly cares for desdemona? the ending, where iago kills her?? i don’t…how…
amazingly, i’ve actually heard worse. the worst ‘x shakespeare character is the REAL villain!’ theory i’ve heard is for ophelia. because apparently, according to this one powerpoint i found online awhile back, she was “”“luring hamlet into the path of darkness with her evil and seductive ways”“” and i just. this is ophelia. we’re not talking about lady macbeth or something, we’re talking about ophelia. where do you even GET that idea??? i honestly still can’t believe it.
throwback thursday: do any of you guys remember the whole ‘hamlet is the REAL villain!’ fiasco
I feel like horatio NEEDS to live for the exact same reasons that iago needs to live, because someone has to bear witness, even when there’s nothing left but memory.
agreed! without horatio, hamlet’s story would never be told, or at least not accurately. no other character that survives the play would know as much about what happened as he would, so if you kill horatio, you kill the last person who could accurately relay the story to the rest of the world, which more or less kills the story itself.
megaparsecs replied to your post “oh man, i’m not sure how i feel about the whole ‘production…”
and i feel like a lot of horatio’s utility in the play comes from his role as 1. observer 2. outsider 3. survivor. horatio’s LIVING has as much weight as hamlets DYING. both are nesc. and unlike other plays the usurper isnt around to play witness
yes exactly!! horatio has to live, because who’s going to tell hamlet’s story if he doesn’t?
accidentally falling in love with Maxine Peake's Hamlet by degrees like
me: ...oh n o she's got cropped hair
me: ..ohnooo she's in that loose, white shirt that is so *quintessentially* Hamlet
me: ...o h nO now she's in a fuckgin trench coat and a perfectly pushed-back black beanie hat
me: ...oh n o
me: ...carrying a gun
me: ...i am done for
Everyone is fascinated by Iago because there is no stepping back, which everyone else would do,” says Kinnear. “And, as the audience, you are his sole confidant about what he is doing, and that enlistment can be quite intoxicating … It puts the audience in the position where they both want him to stop it and to go on.
It would be interesting to know what Hamlet and Iago would look like if you played them without the soliloquies and let an audience make up their own minds,” he adds. “They’d probably find Hamlet quite annoying and they’d like Iago.
Villain of the Piece by Sarah Hemming, an interview with Rory Kinnear about about the NT 2013 production of Othello [x]
This is kind of what I’m getting at when I say that Spoiler Culture is kind of silly. If twist endings and surprises and unexpected revelations are the only things a story can use to draw in its audience, then characters like Iago and Hamlet and Richard III are next to impossible. I mean, a love a good twist ending as much as the next fellow, but there’s definitely something to be said for drawing the audience or readers in as accomplice is quite something, and it’s not an experience I wouldn’t want to do without, but too many modern works don’t even dare come near it, because too much emphasis is placed on the twist ending.
A work can be viewed from inside or outside or any combination of the two, yet Spoiler Culture only permits us a view on the action from outside, but trapped in time. If there’s no wall* built between the audience and the ultimate outcome of the events, if the audience is more aware of the story than the characters, the audience is genre savvy and the characters aren’t, then we get dragged into things in a sort of helpless position. We know it’ll all end in tears and blood, and there’s nothing we can do but watch. A good Iago is a frustrating Iago (and Kinnear is the best and most frustrating of Iagos), because we know what he knows and the other characters don’t, and we know what he perhaps doesn’t know, and there’s nothing we can do about it.
*I’m just going to start calling this the fifth wall